Overcoming Perfectionism With Maria Sosa

podcast Apr 20, 2021

Today I have my friend Maria Sosa, better known as @holisticallygrace, on the podcast. Odds are, you've seen her EPIC infographics on Instagram. She's a therapist, mind-body health educator, relationship expert, writer and intuitive eating counselor.

This episode will really help you become a better communicator, have more self-compassion, process your emotions and let go of the chase for perfection. As Maria said in the episode "we are so much more of an expert on our lives than we have been led to believe" and that's exactly what this episode is all about - trusting yourself instead of always doing what you "should" be doing.


In this episode, you'll learn:

✧ How to trust yourself more and let go of shame
✧  How to cultivate a culture of appreciation (over blaming) in your relationships
✧  Effective language shifts to make your communication in your relationships better
✧  Why a weekly check-in with your partner is important
✧  The difference between emotional processing vs bypassing and how to ACTUALLY process your emotions instead of sweeping them under the rug
✧  How to know if you're a perfectionist and where to start to overcome it



🔮 Resources:


🔮 Mentioned in the episode:

Self Betrayal Course


Maria's Website

Maria's Instagram

Maria's Podcast


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Full Episode Transcript:

Welcome to the magnetically youth podcast. My name is Madison certagen. I'm a master mindset coach and food freedom expert. You're in the right place. If you want to manifest a life It means you jump out of bed excited if every morning, reprogram your mind for success and happiness, feeling your best and become magnetic to everything that you desire. For me healing my relationship with food was my gateway into mindset, spiritual and personal development. And now I am obsessed. And I realized the same thing became true for so many of the women. I've coached through my course the subtle art of food freedom, and doing the inner work around food became about so much more than food for all of us. So that's what this podcast is really about that expansion, expanding that inner work to all areas of our lives so that we can become the most magnetic confident versions of ourselves and achieve our biggest dreams. If you're like me, and you're obsessed with personal development, then you are going to love this podcast. So let's freakin do this. Hi, Maria. Welcome to the magnetically podcast. I'm so excited to have you and for those two listening, welcome back or welcome for the first time if this is your first time listening. Today, I have my friend Maria, who is better known as holisticly grace on Instagram, she makes the most epic graphics ever. Like I think when I met you, I think you had just a few 1000 followers on Instagram. And now you're like coming up on 200,000. And obviously not the followers or everything in life, but it's just been amazing to see your growth. And obviously, like you grew that much because you are creating so much value. I feel like just one of your little like, infographics on Instagram can like create such a shift for someone. So if you guys aren't following Maria, go follow her. She's amazing. But anyway, so that's how we know each other. So she is a therapist, a mind body health educator, a relationship expert, writer, and intuitive eating counselor. And she's also the host of the mind means body podcast, and is soon going to be launching her first online course centered around the topics of self abandonment and betrayal, which sounds amazing. I can't wait for that. So anyways, thank you for being here. I would love if you could tell my listeners a little bit more about you your journey, what you do, and kind of like what led you to what you're doing today. 


Thank you, Madison, I'm really excited to be chatting with you today. And you are right when we first met, I think I was just starting on my social media journey. And it looked very different than what it looks like today. I think at that moment, I was still very much in my pre intuitive eating days. And so I was trying to be some sort of food influencer or some sort of holistic health. I would post pictures of the things that I was eating, and just trying very hard to fit that mold of that's what you do on Instagram. And that's how you're supposed to utilize that platform. And then something shifted, I can't remember exactly what that turning point was. But instead of posting pictures of myself and kind of showcasing me and my quote unquote, perfect life, which it wasn't again, we know that those are just the highlight reels, I've started to share information. And it made so much sense because that's essentially what is my quote unquote product, right? So I am a therapist, I educate. There's all that. And this is something we can talk later on. But so much of my identity is tied up around education and around knowledge, that didn't really make any sense for me to be sharing my food as opposed to sharing, you know, the amazing things that I have learned throughout my education. And so I started creating infographics. And it just really took off I think what I have been sharing people are really hungry for people really want to know more about themselves and understand what is going on and ways in which we can create that shift for ourselves. Right? So this is what's going on right now with me but I'm not really all that excited about this moment or at this stage, what would be a small shift that we can take in a different direction. So I think that all of my posts and all the things that are that I share are with that in mind and with a lot of self compassion to where we are right now? And also space for what else could be? 


I love it. And so what what led you to becoming a therapist? Was that always something that you wanted to do? 


Kind of. So when I was 18, in the first year of college, I actually wanted to go into education. I wanted to be a teacher. And my father at the moment said, well, you're not going to make any money being a teacher. So why don't you go do something else. And he's an economist. And so of course, his path was something business related. And I went to get my marketing degree, and also public relations. So that was my first degree. And I wasn't really happy with what I was doing. I was working in economic projects and things that I can't even remember because it feels like it's just such a different part of my life. But I decided that I wanted to go back to school, and I always loved psychology. And I always found myself longing for understanding myself understanding of others of behaviors. And so psychology just seemed the best route. And then afterwards, because you can't really do anything with psychology on its own. It was okay, well, I have to get a master's in something. And some of the options were psychology or mental health counseling. And then I landed on marriage and family therapy, which I just fell in love with. Because there was such an emphasis on relationships and how we exist in relationship to just about everything, and systems. And the problems aren't always within you, but within the interactions that you're having with the people around you. So I just fell in love with the curriculum and the foundations of marriage and family therapy. And I have been there for a while now. And kind of like, I wound up where I was meant to be, because it definitely wasn't marketing. And it definitely wasn't PR, I get hives, thinking about things business related. It's just not my field. But But I am where I think that I belong. 


I love that. And it's so funny how like our bodies, like give us those strong reactions when something's not aligned. I've had that experience as well. When I was an actuary, I had like chronic back pain, severe anxiety, my head was covered in eczema, because I was like, So, so far gone out of diamond. So that's really funny. You bring that up? So speaking of relationships, I would love to dive more into that today. So to start, like, what are some of the kind of like, biggest issues that people come to you with like those, like common struggles You see, and a lot, a lot of the relationships and people that are coming to you looking for therapy and support in their relationships? 


Yeah, so from a relationship standpoint, it's obviously that we're having problems, and we're not seeing eye to eye, and we need help, or else this relationship is going to fall apart. There's problems here. And we are, you know, this is our last ditch effort. Because statistically speaking, couples don't go to therapy until about seven years after a problem has been, you know, has surfaced or has been determined. So they've been probably dealing with that issue for a while, and kind of sweeping it under the rug and everything's fine. So by the time they come to therapy, things are really bubbled up and have reached a fine point for us to work with. With the problems though. defusing a lot of lead, how can we communicate that differently? How can we create space for those those individual needs and those relational needs? And sometimes that means that the best thing for them is for the relationship to end? Right? So sometimes it means that doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with them. That doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with me as a therapist, even though I think so often we think that that's a failure, right? And we couldn't save the relationship or if they didn't last, then it was doomed, or it was a failure. And so I really like to think about those moments, just as you know, just the next cycle or next stage. And sometimes what is best is to end a cycle and begin a new one, you know, whatever that may look like. And then from an individual standpoint, in terms of therapy and relationships with a lot of what do I do, right? How do I make a relationship work? Do I say what I'm thinking? Do I not say what I'm thinking? Do I share my emotions? Do I not share my emotions? Am I being too needy? Am I putting it all out there? Am I not doing enough? So it's a lot of these self questioning moments of what should I be doing, because I don't really trust myself. And I don't trust any of the things that I've done thus far. And so there's a lot of work in terms of understanding where these relationship patterns or blueprints came from. So dealing with what relationships with parents were like, dealing with attachment, dealing with previous relationships, and how they that informs their current relationships. And then understanding that doesn't mean that they're broken, it doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with them. There's just shifts to be made. There's things that we can work on, there's things that we can all strive towards, but by no means does that mean that we're broken, or that there's anything wrong with us? 


Yeah, I love that. And I think it's such a good point that like, I think, in so many areas of our lives we operate from, what should I buy? Should I be doing? What should I do from it, it comes from a lack of self trust, because it's like, we're looking for something outside of us, someone outside of us to tell us what we should do, how things are supposed to look how things are supposed to be. And it's like, by seeking all of that outside validation and answers, we're like diminishing our trust with ourselves. I think it's really powerful. You brought that up, like I, you know, that was kind of my experience with food. And then I kind of like had to heal and grow in that area. In my business, that kind of an edge shows up in relationships. So how can we begin developing more of that trust with ourselves and letting go of those shoulds? And supposed twos? 


Yeah. So I think one of the first things is to try and break down that shame, and be compassionate and understanding to ourselves, because if we don't trust ourselves, there's probably reason for it. Right? It's not that your behavior came up out of nowhere, and just one day woke up. And you said, I don't trust myself. Why don't I trust myself? 


It's all good. Keep going. It's not that you woke up one day and said, I don't trust myself, or I don't trust the things that I'm doing. That was all an accumulation of the things that have happened to you, in your life, in your upbringing, in your experiences. So if you think about growing up in a household where your needs were denied, or where if you cried, or if you did anything out of the normal, you were just told to stop crying to shut up to not make a big deal out of things, right. So you kind of begin that foundation of lacking that self trust when it comes to food. You brought up such a great point, I think food is a great place where we're taught that we can't trust ourselves that our bodies have no idea. When it's time to eat when it's hungry. 


We need a book. It's like no, our bodies that have these like amazing built in mechanisms. It's It's crazy, right? 


Yeah, so that's it, it's it's perfect constantly, we're just being told that we're not trustworthy. And if we're not trustworthy with our bodies, which is this amazing thing that we carry with us, then it's very easy for us to think that we can't trust anything else, that we can't trust the way we behave in relationships, that we can't trust ourselves as a whole. So I think that first step is understanding and being kind to ourselves and saying, Yeah, I don't trust myself. And there's a reason for this, right? This is where I feel that it started. This is how I feel that it has developed. This is where it is right now. And it makes sense. The way that I'm acting makes sense. I don't have to shame myself for it. I don't need to throw myself under the bus and say I should be trusting myself and I should be, you know, that's kind of like the flip side of that, right? Yes. Then we just get into that should spiral like, yeah, this should spiral about how we should be trusting ourselves and we don't trust ourselves. It's just a cycle of shame. But when we start to understand that our behaviors make sense, then we kind of start to look at that and say, Okay, well, I don't trust myself and what areas Let's begin with that. What areas do I not trust myself in? So if it comes to my food, why don't I trust myself with my food, and then that could lead us obviously into intuitive eating and the things that we very much know about our body sensations, their butter Body cues or body hunger by body truth, essentially, right. And I think that that's a great place to start. Because it really grounds us to look at our bodies and to tune in words to the sensations and tune in words to what is going on on a physiological level, what is happening here. And I think that once we are in tune, or we make that more of a priority, because I don't think we're always 100%, in tune with ourselves, sometimes we are neglecting, we've got things to do, we're busy. But once we make more of an effort, and we prioritize those needs, then I think that really changes everything. And we realize that we are so much more of an expert on our lives, on our relationships, and we have been led to believe, 


Oh, I love this so much. We're so much more of an expert on our lives. And we have been led to believe that I'm gonna put that on Billboard, and every road in the world. So good. And it's, it's true. And that was such a big lesson that I had to learn with food. And like my personal growth journey really started with food and questioning all of the rules and shoulds and things. And it's like, we're taught to believe that someone outside of us is the authority, but like, how will we ever develop confidence and trust in ourselves? If we're always relying on someone outside of us to, like, be the expert? And it's like, what if we have everything we need within us? What if we are the expert? And it's like, not just our, with our body is like, I think we literally more than even like doctors sometimes like are more of an expert on our own bodies. It's our own body, like you are the only human in the world who knows the experiences in your body? And like, yes, that makes you an expert. And it's like, we're like, like you said, it's like we're all kind of the expert on our own lived experience on our own soul. Of course we are because it's us. Right? 


Yeah. Yeah. And that's not to diminish what other doctors or other totally modalities, healing wise bring for us. That's not I don't think that these two things coincide or contradict each other at all. It's just saying, No, this is just a big one that I've been neglecting for a long time. And it's part of everything. It's one of and it's a really big one. 


Yes, yes, I agree. Listening into your intuition. And trusting yourself really is so so huge. So I know, with relationships, you talk a lot about like creating a culture of appreciation. And I saw an amazing Instagram post you had about this. So I would love if you can dive a little bit more into how we can do that. Because I think for so many couples, and I find myself sometimes doing this, like we fall into these like patterns where I'm like, what, like, why did I act that way? Like, why did I do that? Like why am I being a nagging bitch right now. And it's like, you know, that's one of my big intentions for 2021 is like, how can I show up with more kindness and love and compassion for my fiance and speak to him with Kinder words and show up as a version of me that I want to be in our relationship rather than falling into these like, comfortable patterns of like, yeah, just like nagging and different things like that. 


Yeah, I think I know which poster referring to. And if you think about culture, you think about tradition, you think about language, you think about the characteristics of a group of people that make it that group, right. So how do you how do you identify that culture? What are the characteristics? What makes it that and a relationship between two people has its own culture, right? So a culture applies to a bigger community, but it also applies between two people. So an intimate relationship is just another example of this culture. And so if you look at the language or the way that two individuals communicate with each other, that's very important. How are we sharing with each other? What is important to us? A lot of times we find that blaming the other person is the most natural thing to do. So you didn't take out the trash or you didn't do what you were supposed to you never do this or you always do that. That's the first thing that comes to mind. It's that gut instinct response, which if we're looking to have a better communication style, we're going to have to shift that over to To what we call I statements. And so that is speaking from the eye, and then sharing what we are feeling and what we want from the other person? Or what is it related to how can I communicate in a way that isn't triggering or isn't trying to attack you. So instead of saying, you never pay attention to me, right, that's a use statement. An I statement would look like I, what did I say was a use statement, I just forgot what I said. 


You never paid attention to me, 


you never pay attention to me that into an i statement that could be I don't feel that I'm being seen at this moment. I don't feel that my needs are being taken into consideration. And I would really like it if we were able to spend this weekend connecting reconnecting with each other. Right? So that's the feeling really what we're saying, you don't pay any attention to me. That's, there's something else. But beneath that, below that, that is really saying, I am feeling neglected and feeling like we're missing a connection here and feeling like there's something that is off. And so if we're able to recognize, that don't really want to be nasty to our partner, we just don't really have the adequate words to say what we are feeling. And that is that part of language of a culture, the culture of an intimate partnership. And then additionally, there are traditions. So the things that we continuously do year after year, week after week, those are traditions that couple partakes it. So is Friday or Saturday, date night. What does that look like? Is there time that is being made for these traditions to connect? Is there space for discussing the week. So john Gottman, and the Gottman Institute, which is very well known for all their research on relationships, talks about this state of the union. And it is a weekly meeting that couples have in order to kind of check in with each other, assess what the week was like to see what was working, what was and what needs to be improved upon. And then also kind of give that positive reinforcement of what was going well, so kind of having a set time and a set moment for these conversations. That's part of the traditions as well, of creating that culture of compassion, creating that culture that is rooted in. Goodness, I don't know, I just It feels like compassion, right? It just feels like compassion to me when we have these traditions. And when we talk to each other in these languages that are so much more caring, and so much more loving, than the attacking ways that come so naturally. 


Yeah, I love it so much. And I love that idea of like, yeah, like the weekly check him because it's like, it's creating that intention. And that space where both people have the opportunity to like, to be heard, to be seen to praise each other to ask for what they need. I think a lot of times, because we aren't, a lot of us aren't doing those check ins I I've haven't done that. That would be something I would love to try. It's like, it's easy for the things of that week to bubble up and become so much bigger. But it's like with that, like I think it's like with that check in it's like, it gives you the opportunity to kind of like, it's almost like appreciate what was good about that week, and then heal the things that maybe weren't and take those learnings with you into the next week so that their relationship can continue growing? Is that kind of like, how how you would say it works? 


Oh, yeah, definitely, definitely. One thing that I forgot to mention, as you were talking about is a value and a belief system as well, that goes into creating that culture of appreciation as well. So what's important for the relationship, what to agree is a pillar of your relationship. Right? So what are you committed to? Are you committed to honesty, even when the truth is really uncomfortable? Are you committed to resolving conflict with compassion to prioritize each other to making sure that you honor the individual time as well as the together time so that kind of flows very well with what you just said? Yes. 


I love it. So can we play a little game of language ships because I really love that example of like, you never pay attention to me and shifting that to, like, I don't feel like I'm being seen at this moment. So can we maybe come up with just like a couple more examples of like, of just how we can like shift that language just to give people some, like really tangible? example. So I'll start with, I can start with one, and then you can tell me what you would shift into if that's okay. Yeah, get ready, rapid fire, rapid fire test to make sure you're legit, and you don't have any imposter syndrome. Okay, no, anyways, just because I know you're amazing at this. And so you never do the dishes. 


I feel that I'm often doing things by myself. Can we please work on this together? I feel that I'm alone, is there's nothing that we can compromise on. And I'll do some of the work and you'll do some of the work as well. So it's more about that. feeling alone? Again, right. So I feel like you never helped with this. That is, I feel a little into things, I feel that I'm putting all the effort into things and I'm not getting anything back in return. 


So good. Okay. I'll just do one more, because that one was so good that maybe we don't need that many examples. I think the point is, hit home. Okay, what about? How could we shift the language around saying like, you always blow things out of proportion and make them a bigger deal than they need to be? 


A good one, actually, and you tell how specific my examples are the ones I realize, I feel like, you have a conversation with somebody before recording. 


These are my real life examples. If anyone's wondering, well, it could be just as easy as I feel really uncomfortable. I feel really triggered when you speak to me, in that tone, it really hurts my emotions or really hurts my feelings when you speak to me in that way, as opposed to saying that you blow things out of proportion. And I'm going to bet tone, and that doesn't feel good hearing that it doesn't feel great hearing those words coming out of your mouth, especially from somebody that I love very much. Right? So how can we speak to each other in a way that's Kinder? How can we make sure that we're communicating, because I understand where you're coming from I value that this is important to understand that you're blowing up because this is important to you. However, this is the way that it's coming across. How can we voice that in a way where you're being heard, but I'm also not being attacked. 


Hmm, so good. Love it. Love it. So good. How to how to do fantastic, you pass the test. You're legit, you get the blue checkmark on Instagram. You probably already have it. Okay, anyways, that was amazing. Thank you for doing that. I think that's it's such a powerful like, honestly, in so many ways, like easy shifts like to pause when you're about to respond. And you know, think of how would, how would Maria, reframe this and just see if you can start making those little shifts? I think it makes such a big difference. Is there anything else you want to like odd about? Yeah, just like language and how we can speak to each other with more compassion, more kindness in our like intimate relationships, even like friends, family, just people in general? 


Yeah, well, first of all, I want to say that it's not easy. It actually takes a lot of soccer strain. And though it sounds really amazing, as I'm coming up with this thing, in my chair calmly and coolly, you know, when we're in the middle of an argument, it takes a lot of effort to really take that deep breath and take that moment and think rather than react, right. So there has to be a bit of a body check in as well. We may need to take that deep breath or we may need to ground ourselves and understand that. Okay, you don't need to respond right away. You can ground yourself you can be in this moment before it escalates before it turns into something else before it turns into something nasty, and that takes a lot of practice. That is not easy. It sounds so easy to make the shift but I can make it look beautiful on a little infographic but when you get down to actually practicing these, you're not going to be perfect. You're not going to be doing it as according to plan because relationships are messy because interactions are messy, but The more that you practice it, the more that you'll be able to put things into words, the more that it will become more of that second nature, right. So if you've been speaking to your partner that way throughout your whole relationship, right, you've created a road, you've created a path. That is the path of least resistance, that's your go to, that's what's going to come easiest. trying something new and different, can be hard, your brain is going to want to do things the old way, it's going to want to try and do things the way that is natural. So understand that it's not going to be easy. Understand that it takes practice, and don't beat yourself up for also following or falling into those old patterns, because that's what's natural for your brain. Just keep going just keep repeating these steps and repeating these phrases. So that that can eventually become your new path, that that compassionate way of speaking to your partner or speaking to your friend or your family members. You're 100% correct. This applies to any relationship, not just your intimate relationships. So it is through the practice through the experience, where we see how the other Park power partner, or the other person reacts, that we actually learn, you know, we can only know and understand when we do. 


So love this. And I like to remember that I one of my like core beliefs is that like everyone is always doing the best they can with what they have. And when we can come into our relationships with that mindset. And remember, like, sure, what they may have said, by have sounded crazy to me, sounded rude to me might have sounded whatever to me. And I'm choosing to believe that they're doing the best they can with what they have. So how can I understand their perspective? How can I have more compassion for it, and I've like noticed my language shifting so much, because it's something I'm really intentional about in my life and my business and my relationship. And, like, through being a coach, I've like learned to speak in so much more of an empowering way. And I've just seen it create, like, massive progress in my relationship in our communication. Obviously, we're humans, we still have room to grow. But I think it's just like, yeah, just really being intentional, like taking those deep breaths and being so intentional. And with our language and practicing, like you said, it's like a word, I'm just gonna wake up tomorrow and be perfect communicators, it's something that you have to make the commitment to like, even when it's uncomfortable, even when it's hard, even when you are, like so mad you want to like blow up or whatever it is, it's like, those are the moments where like the most growth can happen, I think. Definitely, definitely. 


So I did want to get into talking a little bit about Actually, I was gonna say perfectionism, but before we do that, I'm feeling inspired to that one, too. Oh, well, we'll go there next only one more question. Until then, I wanted to ask you kind of about, like, I know, you talked a lot about emotional processing versus bypassing. And I would just love to hear like the difference between those and some of your thoughts around that. Because I think it's a really, really powerful concept. And I think and, like, so much of the, what I see on Instagram today is like, you know, think good thoughts, Be positive, be happy, like, just choose to just choose to let it go. And like, all that is so powerful, and I love that stuff. But at the same time, it's like, we also have to give ourselves the space to feel and to process. So anyways, I will let you dive more into that. 


Yeah, I think as a culture we have been taught to emotionally bypass as a whole, like from when we were children don't cry. It's not such a big deal. Don't turn it into anything that it is, and especially with the negative things, right. So anything that has to do with being upset with being sad with being afraid, it's this idea that can't have any of that there's no space for that here. There's no crying in baseball, get it together, put on a smile. And that fake it till you make it mentality very much applies to our emotions. So much so that when somebody asks you how you're doing, not polite to really tell somebody that you're having a really tough day or that you're in a deep depression, or you know, dealing with a lot of anxiety today. That's depressing and nobody wants to hear your problems. So you say I'm fine. Everything's great. And I'm going to tell you that everything is just fine with a big smile on my face, and it's fine. It's not things are falling apart. I'm not doing okay, but I'm not going to tell you that and I'm not gonna tell a lot of people that either Because I have an image to uphold, I may be at work and we don't share any emotions at work, either. It's a place where we definitely keep our emotions away. And so we've become a culture of emotional bypasses where we don't have space for negative emotions or negative interactions, because it's depressing, because we all just want to be happy. And we all just want to laugh. And the thing is, it's bad, and you've got to get rid of it and shouldn't be feeling that way. And it's like, we're humans. So we're gonna always have negative emotions. There's, it's like, how can we not see them as negative, what if it's there, what if they're not good or bad or right or wrong, and they just are, and we're just having a human experience. 


They just are. And here's the thing, we also wouldn't know what it's like to be happy if we didn't know what it was like to be sad, right? If we were always happy than English, that would be a neutral thing, it would just be neutral would be a daily kind of thing. But you know, when you're happy, because you know, you've been really sad. And you know, you've had those really deep and dark moments where you probably learned a lot, actually. So those moments where you're better You're so scared of you don't want to be in, those are really character building moments that you don't want to avoid. Because when you are constantly trying to be happy, there's nothing wrong with being happy there. But if you're constantly trying to be this happy person, you're really missing out on a lot of those really deep and growth oriented emotions. Because we really grow a lot from pain, we grow a lot from sadness, we grow a lot from grief, those moments impact us, and in my opinion, transform us. So when it comes to emotional processing, versus that emotional bypassing, it is, as you said, not viewing emotions as either good or bad, just as emotions, that all have a place in our life, you're not going to be laughing after the death of somebody, right? That that's not a natural emotion that comes there. So honor the fact that something really terrible has happened and that it's sad, where that your marriage has ended. Those are very deep moments, right? And a lot of the times, people who come into therapy, say, I really should be over this, I should just be done with this, it's, you know, I'm trying to put on a happy face, and what can you do just move along. And so I like to remind everybody that not a race, you don't have to feel anything that you're not really feeling naturally, your body will readjust naturally, your body will come to this place where it will seek natural joy, or it will seek natural happiness. Of course, it doesn't apply to cases of extreme depression, clinical depression, where we may need medication or where, you know, naturally, we're not able to get ourselves to that space anymore. That's a different story. But naturally, we will seek joy, we will laugh again, we will find those spaces that that bring that naturally when we're not faking it. So take the time and the place to honor the sadness, take the time in place to honor the joy take the time to process it, and be okay with it all no matter what is coming out. 


So what does it look like to process emotions? Like how would you say that looks like is it the absence of avoiding? Or is it something else? 


That's a really good, good thought. So when I think about the processing of emotions, because emotions are actually the physical component, right? So the emotion is what or how the body interprets what's going on. And then a feeling is how the brain kind of processes that emotion. So an emotion would be anger, right? So if something has happened to you, where you've been wronged or something was done to you on fairly naturally in your body, physiologically, there's going to be an emotion, more than likely your face will get flushed as the body rushes to the surface of the skin. You may feel a bit of sweat in your palms, you know, possibly in your feet. So there's a physiological reaction to what we have just encountered. So that's the first part. So checking in with the body and saying, What am I feeling where my body Am I feeling this. What does it mean? Right? So not saying get over it? No. Thing stop feeling this way, but okay, I feel this emotion coming into my body. What does it mean? What is it related to? And how do we feel about that emotion as well? How am I interpreting that? So it's kind of again that mind body processing, allowing the body to get the feedback from the environment, and then not avoiding it, just as you said, not voiding. What is coming up, being there in the discomfort, I know that we say this all the time, sit with the discomfort and be with the discomfort. And it's such a repeated phrase. But it's repeating for a reason. Because it's a thing that we need, we really do. Whenever we get uncomfortable, it's this, how do I get rid of it? How do I let go of this anxiety that I'm building up and it goes away, but you have to pay attention to it, you can't avoid it. You can't bypass it, you've got to be with it. Even if it feels like you're going to break even if it feels like everything is falling apart? Well, you'll get through it, you'll move through it. 


Yeah, and something I like to tell myself, when I'm kind of like feeling like really heightened anxiety or something like that I just told myself, like, anxiety is harmless. It really is like emotions, even like, you know, all these emotions, like they're just harmless. If you love you, or allow yourself to sit through that discomfort, it's like, when as soon as you like, it's almost like as soon as you stop needing to get rid of it and making it mean something about you, and then you feel anxious about being anxious. If you can just let it be okay. It's like it really does. Like, it's like speed up the process of like releasing it and being free from feeling the way that you maybe don't want to be feeling. 


Yeah, yeah. It's also important to note that all these emotions and feelings exist on a spectrum, right? So your anxiety is going to be very different than my anxiety than somebody else's anxiety. So I want to make sure that we honor the fact that I'm not having a panic attack, right, I'm not trying to say that your panic attack is by any way, comparable to my very, if you put it on a scale or on a spectrum, you know, like, I'm probably out of tune with my anxiety right now, before we started talking on the podcast, right, you know, like that little those pre jitters, I'm not trying to compare that and then to somebody who's having a full day panic and anxiety attack that needs a completely different attention, then basic or, you know, kind of like a low level anxiety. So there's different levels. I'm not trying to diminish any one or the other because they each require different things. So if you're in a full blown panic attack, you're going to need something different than you know, whatever I may be leaving pre recording of a podcast. 


Exactly. 100% Thank you for bringing that up. So let's shift gears into kind of like the last topic I wanted to talk about, which is overcoming perfectionism. So I want to like first Have you elaborate on like, what is your like definition of a perfectionist? And like what are some of the like common, like tendencies that show up for someone who is I don't want to say a perfectionist, because I don't like to give people labels, but someone who's experiencing those tendencies. 


Yeah, that's a really good point to make regarding that. We don't like labels, because you're not a perfectionist, you engage in perfectionism or in behaviors associated with perfectionism, right? We don't have to take on that identity and become that perfectionist. And that's a really cool thing to think about. Because that means that all of our behaviors are then can be changed can be altered, right? It is not who you are, it's just a behavior. That means they can be changed not, you're not stuck with this, you're not stagnant, all of these behaviors can be altered. And so perfectionism is I gave a talk about that perfectionism for hours. 


And I was like, how do we like, yeah, put this up in a nice little box with a bow will translate? 


Well, a perfectionist would say that you? Yeah. So on my, for my own personal story, definitely view myself as a perfectionist. And sometimes another behavior that's tied with perfectionism is actually procrastination. So those two kind of go hand in hand at times and we procrastinate because we're waiting for things to be perfect or you know, we They just think of their friends procrastination and perfectionism. I don't even know how to explain how well they fit with each other. But essentially, it's just this idea of never good enough. So no matter what is being done, it's never enough. And it's always in comparison to somebody else to something else that has been done before. And it's this continuous quest, kind of like you're on a dribble, we'll have more and more and more and more and more more, I need to do more of that I need to have a better car, I need to have a bigger house, and it needs to be perfectly decorated. And my work needs to be impeccable. And all the things that I'm doing need to be in alignment, I've got all my ducks in a row. And everybody perceives me as this high achieving person who has got it all together. And this is the image that I have to give and that I have to provide to everybody else. And so that is my definition of perfectionism of that never good enough syndrome, in the constant chasing of a reality that isn't actually real, we could never achieve that. Because our expectations of that moment or of what it should be will never be enough. So we create these stories in our heads that will never be what the reality is. That's just how it is. our imagination is one thing in our reality is another so we will always be chasing something that is not possible. Which is really sad, because we lose a lot of that being here in the moment, acknowledging what is being contend with how much we have accomplished honoring ourselves being grateful for how far we've come, right. So a perfectionist would rarely being aging in those moments of Wow, I've really come a long way or really worked very hard for this. It's more along the lines of what else do I need to be doing? What else? Do I need to be engaging in to make sure that everything is all aligned and perfect? And yeah, I think that that that would be my definition of professionalism. I don't know if you'd like to add anything else to that? 


No, that's so good. And I've definitely, like struggled myself with many of these things. And I've had to really like work through a lot of it and let go of that identity and let go of the chasing and like, it's Yeah, it's like you said, it's like on a hamster wheel or like a dog chasing its tail. And it's like you can you, the chase never ends. because like you said, it's an illusion, what you're chasing isn't real, it doesn't exist, it's always somewhere you're not because you're never good enough. So you have to get there. Because once you get there, you'll be good enough. But then when you get there, you're still not good enough, because the problem is that it's like the underlying issue of the not good enoughness rather than, you know your circumstances. So I think that's a really, really great definition. And I'm glad you brought up the perfectionism thing, because when I listened to this podcast, by Sam, Laura Brown, the perfectionism project, it's really great. And when I first started listening to it, she was talking a lot about how like, perfectionist procrastinate, I was like, I don't procrastinate, I always like get shit done. And then the more I kind of like dove into what was going on underneath, I was like, holy shit. I am like, I totally used to procrastinate, like, so much like a year ago, and it was like, it was sneaky procrastination. It wasn't like it was it wasn't like, you know, like, Oh, I just wait to the last minute for everything because that's just what I do. I just procrastinate. It was like No, it was like I was always doing always busy. Because my sense of self worth was so tied up and doing and achieving and, and getting to where I thought you know, that perfect reality was or whatever. And I realized it was like my version of procrastination was extreme avoidance of like being so busy all the time that I didn't have to face those feelings of feeling not enough of, you know, whatever else was coming up if I was just busy all the time that I didn't have to face it. And even in my business, I noticed when I first started my business a couple years ago that came up where it was like, if I just busy all the time, then I get to avoid and procrastinate doing the scary uncomfortable things like doing an Instagram Live and putting my face on video and really sharing vulnerably sharing my experiences. So yeah, that's kind of like my experience with procrastination. I just wanted to bring that up because I think can be so sneaky, it can be so sassy. 


Oh, you nailed it. That's exactly where I was going. But I lost my train of thought. And I'm so glad you pieced me back together because I was like procrastination and perfectionism go together. And I was like, Where was I going with that? Exactly. That's where I was going with it. It's this busy perfection, that we procrastinate on other things, right. So it takes them an avoidance. At other things. I'm so busy with this, that I'm not dealing with a lot of other things. So it'll show up in other in other parts of our life, so we may not be procrastinating on work, right? When are you procrastinating in our relationships? Are you procrastinating on having those difficult conversations with our partner? Are you procrastinating calling family members to let them know, you know, how we're feeling about that last interaction we had? So yeah, you nailed it, thank you for pulling you back together, you are more than welcome to take over. 


It's like that avoidance of the potential for shame. And we don't want to be put ourselves in a vulnerable position where we may possibly experience something that could feel shameful. So it's easier to procrastinate and avoid it and not do it at all. Because then we don't have to make ourselves vulner a ball to the possibility of, of shame and of quote, failure, when I really believe there's no such thing as failure, right? It's just feedback. It's just lessa. And it's just growth, it's just the human experience. So I know this is a big question and for a few minutes, so take it with a grain of salt and go with what you feel called to speak to, but how can we begin unraveling some of these tendencies and the procrastination, the avoidance that chase that chase for essentially worthiness that's kind of icy? Is that how you see it too? 


I do. I do. There's a very much this idea of, it's not enough, I'm not enough, I'm not worthy, right. And so we're constantly trying to do more, in trying to be perfect, so that we can find that sense of worth or so that others actually may provide that for us, right. So I need you to see this perfect work of art that I've created, so that you can let me know that I am worthy, and then that I can internalize that and remind myself of my worth, right. So I need you, I need that external validation. So I can believe it for myself. So very much tied into that sense of worth. It's a big one, right, because it's a lot of deconstructing ideas that we have about ourselves. And that's big, big work. But it starts with little things. It starts with acknowledging the small things that we have done starts with honoring, that we have worth even if we're not productive, it starts with honoring worth, for being human having that compassion for ourselves, regardless of what we're doing. Regardless if things are going well. Regardless if we have failed, right, which it feels like failure, we know that it feels like failure, right? Ultimately, we know that it's information, but damn, that failure hurts. And so kind of, I say so much, but that compassion, that compassion for self, that kindness, that gentleness that we would give to our neighbor that we would give to our loved one that we would give to even a stranger, right? We wouldn't, we wouldn't hold anybody up to these high expectations that we place for ourselves would usually say you're doing your best or you're doing a really good job. Or look at what you've come so far, that's that's how we would treat our friend. But when it comes to being a friend to ourselves, we're not very good at it at all. So I think a good way to kind of start to unravel, that is befriending yourself and kind of taking on this friend role for yourself. So in therapy, we have this term called externalizing. And it's when we externalize a problem, we look at it as not a part of us, right? So I wonder if we are able to then step outside of ourselves as well. And look at ourselves and look back at ourselves as if a friend was looking at us, but it's us, right? So Madison is looking at Madison and as a friend, what would that friend, say? Chances are, it's not going to be you're worthless and you're not doing what you're supposed to be doing and you My God, you know what is going on here? Know that kind and compassionate medicine or that kind of compassionate Maria would say something very different something along the lines of you are you've come a long way. Like if I think about back to your influencer food influencer days, right and how far you've come along today, I know that you want to keep growing, I know that you are constantly comparing yourself to other educators or other therapists or other people who are on this social media platform. But look at what you've done and look at how much you've grown. Can you have your own path? Can you have your own amazing story that doesn't look like everybody else's? Right. And so when we remove ourselves, and we provide that befriending to ourselves, I think that that's a really good place to start in deconstructing all these ideas and thoughts about ourselves. 


I love that so much. That's a great note to end on. So before we do that, is there anything else is on your heart to share today? Anything else that's coming up that we didn't get to talk about? Hmm, no, I think so. Oh, well, you know, so I'm going, I'm creating a new online course, it's my first one, a lot of button work has, you know, gone into this. And it's around the topics of self abandonment and self betrayal and the cycles that we sometimes fall into, because we've neglected ourselves or neglected our needs, from childhood or from our relationships, or whatever it may be. And so a lot of the things that we talked about today fall into those themes of self betrayal, right, so where we don't listen to ourselves or needs, because we want to show everybody that we're perfect, right? And procrastination, sometimes we know that we want to try something different, or try something new. Try on a passion project, but we keep on putting it off. And so it's that self betrayal of knowing that you want something but not going for it and kind of again, understanding that these are all very much human behaviors that they have a purpose there's a reason to them, but how can we kind of start to work with ourselves so that instead of constantly betraying ourselves and our needs, we're listening and we're honoring and being more in tune with ourselves and with our needs? 


So good When is that going to be coming out? Do you now in January Yes. So it'll be like amazing new year same amazing you with different skills I don't want to say New Year new year because I'm not a big fan of it is a new year the new moment to learn about yourself to create some shift but you're you're amazing Just as you are definitely coming back to that like home of how perfect you already are. Love it. So this will probably come out by time you guys are listening to this it will already have past January probably late January maybe February. So perfect timing we're gonna link and find the link to your course and we'll link it up in the show notes. Where else can we find you on Instagram your website? I know you have your podcast Yeah, I'm a little behind on my podcast though. You know when you try to do everything and you try to be a perfectionist and all the things you decide to make a course and have a podcast and post things every day and kind of have to wind down and understand that you can't do it everything and that you don't have to do it everything but yes the podcast is mine meets body and I will eventually get to that holistically grace my website ballistically grace calm and yeah, for the most part, that's where you can find me amazing thank you so much for being here. 


Thank you maria so much so grateful for you listening today. If this resonated with you, it would mean the world to me if you'd hit subscribe and leave a review on iTunes and everybody is invited to the after party, which takes place every day on Instagram I medically you so come hang out with us there. And if you're really fired up about mindset, spiritual and personal development, head to magnetically calm to check out all the fun stuff I have going on there like my coaching, and my courses, free workshops, all the good stuff and I will see you on the next episode. 

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